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Last Post:
Nov 4, 2009 1:13 AM
Last Post By: Mark LaPedus
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06/03/09
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Comments for: "Intel, Numonyx claim phase-change memory milestone"
Posted:
Oct 28, 2009 2:29 PM
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Posts:
15
Registered:
06/03/09
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Re: Comments for: "Intel, Numonyx claim phase-change memory milestone"
Posted:
Oct 28, 2009 2:29 PM
in response to: ECD Fan
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Well, some may disagree with Mr. Fazio's statement that NAND is not stackable.
( http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/article/HONSHI/20090827/174636/ )
The fact that Intel has no clue about NAND and has to rely on Micron does not mean that others don't as well.
Intel's founder coauthored a PCM article in 1970. The "10-year cycle" must have been completed by 1980 then. Mr. Fazio and Mr. Atwood better explain why Alverstone writes at only 0.3 megabytes per second and why it can store just 16 megabytes, otherwise, some may accuse them in perpetrating a blatan technoPonzi scheme.
EETimes should exercise better editorial control about what comes out of their reporters.
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Posts:
6
Registered:
06/16/09
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Re: Comments for: "Intel, Numonyx claim phase-change memory milestone"
Posted:
Oct 28, 2009 5:18 PM
in response to: ECD Fan
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Interesting work from Numonyx. I agree with "ECD Fan" - Samsung have already stacked both floating gate and TANOS versions of NAND using their epitaxial silicon growth technique. The floating gate version has the same scalability issues as 2D NAND while TANOS has read-pass disturb issues (among others). It will be interesting to see if Numonyx has solved the problems of integrating a high current carrying non-linear element (i.e. a stacked diode) with the PCM material. The question of cost in such approaches has been solved - see May's (2209) edition of IEEE Trans on Semi. Manufacturing. In any case, their approach as presented in the EE Times article sounds sort of similar to SanDisk's 3D approach (http://microlab.berkeley.edu/text/seminars/MonolithicMem.pdf).
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Posts:
6
Registered:
06/16/09
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Re: Comments for: "Intel, Numonyx claim phase-change memory milestone"
Posted:
Oct 28, 2009 8:36 PM
in response to: ECD Fan
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That 3D cost model I referred to was in May 2009 IEEE Trans Semi Manufacturing. It showed that monolithic 3D Flash, besides being inevitable, has an optimum in the number of added device layers. The great question that remains is: which 3D Flash alternative will prevail ?
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Posts:
17
Registered:
05/20/09
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Re: Comments for: "Intel, Numonyx claim phase-change memory milestone"
Posted:
Oct 28, 2009 8:58 PM
in response to: ECD Fan
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Well, there's the big question, right? I am going to guess that ECD Fan isn't voting for PCM. I'd love to see what others think.
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Posts:
6
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06/16/09
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Re: Comments for: "Intel, Numonyx claim phase-change memory milestone"
Posted:
Oct 29, 2009 12:36 AM
in response to: ECD Fan
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Good idea Dylan. Turns out there aren't that many to choose from: (1) 3D versions of some switchable material such as PCM (Numonyx), Perovskite (Unity), Simple metal oxide (SanDisk, Toshiba), solid-state electrolyte (Axon) (2) NAND string in "horizontal direction" i.e. parallel with wafer plane, such as regular floating gate NAND (Samsung), TANOS (Samsung), SONOS with barrier engineering (Macronix), Dual-gate TFT SONOS (Schiltron) (3) NAND string in "vertical direction" such as BiCS (Toshiba) and VRAT (Samsung). Each approach has its advantages and disadvantages. The problem for the readers will be to discern the real state of affairs through all the hype that will grow and grow with the approaching NAND Flash brick wall.
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Posts:
1
Registered:
10/28/09
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Re: Comments for: "Intel, Numonyx claim phase-change memory milestone"
Posted:
Oct 29, 2009 5:38 AM
in response to: ECD Fan
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Toom, if my read of this article is correct, they are using a thin film selection device instead of a stacked diode. They do not need a stacked diode. They are using a thin film device in place of a stacked diode.
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Posts:
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06/16/09
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Re: Comments for: "Intel, Numonyx claim phase-change memory milestone"
Posted:
Oct 29, 2009 1:15 PM
in response to: ECD Fan
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Bri227, it will be interesting to see what their OTS actually is but I suspect it may just be a way of describing a diode. If you look at Samsung's 2005 IEDM paper (Baek et al.), they integrated thin film Ni-oxide and Ti-oxide to make selection diodes to their metal oxide switch for 3D memory. Unfortunately, these diodes had a maximum current drivability that was at least 3 orders of magnitude too small to deliver the current needed for resetting the material from low resistance to high resistance. PCM (at least in the literature) needs hundreds of microamps to reset which is not only a tall order for any 3D switch (i.e. diode) but also impacts the reset bandwidth (number of cells being reset per second).
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Posts:
3
Registered:
10/29/09
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Re: Comments for: "Intel, Numonyx claim phase-change memory milestone"
Posted:
Oct 29, 2009 4:22 PM
in response to: ECD Fan
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OTS is not a diode. It is a new phase change switching technology that was patented by the inventor of PCM - Stan Ovshinsky. See for example U.S. patent #5,330,630
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Posts:
6
Registered:
06/16/09
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Re: Comments for: "Intel, Numonyx claim phase-change memory milestone"
Posted:
Oct 29, 2009 5:35 PM
in response to: ECD Fan
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I see. This chalcogenide electronic bistable switch is then in series with the PCM chalcogenide that changes state structurally. Seems ingenious. I look forward to their presentation.
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Posts:
27
Registered:
04/12/08
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Re: Comments for: "Intel, Numonyx claim phase-change memory milestone"
Posted:
Oct 29, 2009 8:40 PM
in response to: ECD Fan
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My take:
PCM = Phase-change memory
Or is it this? Phantom-change memory or phony-change memory.
We keep writing about PCM, but it's still an R&D project.
Is anyone out there seeing PCM in volumes?
BAE Systems is said to have seen some samples.
Nokia wants it. Any OEMs gotten their hands on it?
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Posts:
3
Registered:
10/29/09
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Re: Comments for: "Intel, Numonyx claim phase-change memory milestone"
Posted:
Oct 31, 2009 6:15 PM
in response to: ECD Fan
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better link on OTS
http://www.ovonic.com/PDFs/MRS_fall2003_tutorials/sro_mrs_fall2003_tutorial_120103.pdf
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Posts:
2
Registered:
02/08/08
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Re: Comments for: "Intel, Numonyx claim phase-change memory milestone"
Posted:
Oct 31, 2009 9:54 PM
in response to: ECD Fan
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To Mark LePedus:
So, you are an editor. Conventional wisdom says an editor's job doesn't quite involve calling names to the subject of the articles they publish. Unless of course, their intent is to write in stone that their publication is really a tabloid. If you don't believe in the credibility of a press release or technology, do not report it. Someone else will.
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Posts:
3
Registered:
10/29/09
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Re: Comments for: "Intel, Numonyx claim phase-change memory milestone"
Posted:
Nov 3, 2009 8:23 AM
in response to: ECD Fan
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Try this link.
http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=ZbLIAAAAEBAJ&dq=7589343
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Posts:
27
Registered:
04/12/08
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Re: Comments for: "Intel, Numonyx claim phase-change memory milestone"
Posted:
Nov 4, 2009 1:13 AM
in response to: ECD Fan
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Solster,
I have written tomes about PCM. Those articles, which are
objective, are written and posted in the news section. Those
articles are mostly positive.
This is a blog; I can state my opinion here. In my opinion,
I am no big fan of PCM. PCM has gotten too much hype.
There is no evidence of any sales for PCM.
Intel has introduced the same part 20 (or more) times. We have published all
20 versions. Here's what I'm wondering: When will Phantom Change Memory
gain traction?
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